Conn Smythe for losing team situation?

Question

I don't usually discuss Conn Smythe opinions, but this really made me say "WHat the----?"

It was suggested online that, win or lose, Malkin is the Conn Smythe winner. Now, don't get me wrong - great player, did a lot for his team, probably along with Crosby the only reason(s) the Pens are where they are. However --- he is not the MVP if the Pens lose, in my opinion. For the losing team to have the CS winner, he would have to be:

1) Responsible to a HUGE degree for them being in the Finals

2) Not only carry the team to victory, but take them to the brink of a Cup

3) Outshine all the players on the winning team, consistently.

Yes, Malkin has been great, at times - with PERIODS of tremendous impact, but

1) He shares the getting-them-to-the-finals title with Crosby.

2) He carried the team to a couple victories, but they are not on the brink of a Cup (yet)

3) He hasn't outshined many wings players - I think Zetterberg and Osgood have had better Finals than Malkin, and even Helm and some others have had as much impact on the series. Datsyuk hasn't played enough, but if he plays in #6 like he did in #5, he's as impactful as Malkin.

So, unless the Pens come through with two straight wins, and Malkin is the key figure, the idea that he should be MVP if the Wings win tomorrow, isn't logical, to me.

Great player, just not Smythe material this year.

Answer 1

Darren Helm for the Conn Smythe!!



Well actually, Zetterberg, but man, Helm is a workhorse!

Answer 2

Last time I remember seeing a losing team get the Smythe, it was Giguere in Anaheim. And the Ducks wouldn't have gotten close to a game 7 in the SCF's without that guy. Malkin has been good, maybe the best in the playoffs, but it would take a lot more to get the trophy from the losing side. If the Pens come back and win, as long as Crosby doesn't steal both games, Malkin will get it.



But if the Wings win, it will probably be either Osgood or Zetterberg. And Zetterberg has had a lot of support from unlikely sources and won it last year, so I would be willing to bet on Osgood as the sentimental pick.

Answer 3

Here is the problem I find in the Conn Smythe going to Crosby or Malkin. Crosby has not been that much of a factor. Malkin has done his team a lot of harm as well as good. Stupid penalties do not make you an MVP.



I think it should be unequivocally a player who has done the most good for the team whether it be the winning team or losing team. Neither Crosby or Malkin have really done that.



I think it depends on the last game (or, heaven forbid, two). To me the front runners at this point are Zetterberg and Osgood.



Datsyuk and Hossa have been a bit of a disappointment in the finals. Datsyuk has somewhat of an excuse. Still, I read today that IF the Wings win tonight Lidstrom is likely to hand off the Cup to Hossa first.



PS And like Crosby, I respect Bob in that he is knowledgeable but sometimes when read his answers all I see is blah-blah-blah.....

Answer 4

1. Zetterberg. You could make a case for Ozzie until you're blue in the face, but Big Z's been more valuable in these play-offs. He's kept Crosby off the board for the most part and leads the team in play-off scoring. 2. a. See above. Unless Osgood plays out of his mind and steals both of the games. b. Right now, Malkin. Crosby could possibly win it with a Messier-like showing, but I'm doubtful If DET wins i don't think you can justify giving it to any Penguin. Giving the Conn Smythe to a player on the losing side is like giving the Hart to someone whose team finished 11th in the conference. Ridiculous. The Conn Smyth should go to most integral player on the winning team, because without him they wouldn't be the best. Losers are not MVPs. In addition to picking the Hawks in 7, Mr. Wyshynski also picked the Wings in 7 over the BJs. Guess he doesn't like the Wings. He does make weird suggestions, at least once a week or so.

Answer 5

I believe the only way Malkin gets the Conn is if this goes to 7 games and he is a huge factor in games 6 and 7.



Bob: I agree that Crosby has had a very good playoff but so has Malkin and Malkin has had a better finals. If I am voting between the two of them, I give the nod to Malkin based on his finals performance. IMO, it has been that good.



Just Rich: Datsyuk doesn't even factor into this season's Conn Smythe debate. Doesn't matter what he does defensively, he has not played to his capabilities this playoff.

Answer 6

When the Conn Smythe is given to a player on the losing team that player must be head and shoulders above anyone else on either team. (Note that a player who didn't make it to the finals is even considered).

Five times the award has been given to a player on the losing team. Four times the player was the goalie. In these cases the goalie stood on his head but still lost. This will not be the case this year.

The only time it was awarded to a losing player who wasn't a goalie was in 1976 when Reggie Leach of the Philadelphia Flyers won the award. What did Reggie do that year? He scored about 40% of the Flyers goals in those playoffs. He outscored all other players in the entire playoffs by scoring more goals than anybody else had points.

He was dominant.

Even so Dryden was the favourite to win the award. But the awarders chose Reggie due to the dominant playoffs.

This year it will go to a Red Wings player unless Pittsburgh stages a remarkable come back.

So the award for 2009 will go to a player on the wining team.

Answer 7

If it goes to the losing team . . .



Crosby.



Malkin has gone from Beastly as people like to refer to him in some games to seeming like he must be injured in the locker room because you dont hear his name for 10 minutes.



Crosby has had the effort the whole time and say what you want, but I watched every single one of their games. While Malkin took over 3 or 4 games for sure, crosby has been a much more even and dependable factor for the Pens. Additionally every team put their emphasis of shutdown on crosby, not Malkin so I think that says even more for him that they have similar numbers. Malkin should be eating up second lines IMO.



My thought is that it will likely go to Zetterberg or Osgood.

Answer 8

IF the Pens lose...



IF the Playoff MVP is from the Pens...



I'd have no choice but to say Crosby with 15 goals so far and a plus/minus of 10. I recall a few key goals during the Pens run with 2 of them being GW's. Malkin, on the other hand has had way too many penalties compared to Croz. My runners-up would be Ruslan Fedotenko and, believe it or not, Marc-Andre Fleury.



But win or lose, the Smythe SHOULD go to Zetty or Oz.

Answer 9

The only way someone from the losing team wins it is if it's not even close. When Giguere won it in '03, no one came close to his value for the Ducks. Even if the Pens dominate game 6 and lose game 7, no Penguin has been so superior to any Wing. If the Pens do win it in 7, it goes to Crosby. Otherwise, it's between Zetterberg and Osgood.

Answer 10

I just cant see any of the Wings getting it. Before the finals, a HUGE chunk of Zetterbergs goals were empty-netters (almost half I believe). He did not stand out in the first 3 rounds, along with many of the Wings players. Through the first 3 rounds, he only made it into the "3 stars of the game" twice. Im not putting a lot of weight into the "3 stars of the game", but Im just pointing out that he really wasnt taking over any games. It was mostly Detroits secondary players that were doing their scoring to get them to the finals. If I had to pick which Wings players were in the running for MVP it would be Franzen or Ozzy. Ozzy will have a few things going against him like the "anybody could win with that defense" argument. And Franzen has been great, consistent, and clutch the whole post season but I dont think he has "out-shined" Crosby or Malkin.



Im not trying to argue about who SHOULD win the Conn Smythe, just who I think will likely get the most votes. Crosby and Malkin hold the spot light, which like it or not, I think does play a factor in voting. They also have the stats to back it up. I could be wrong and we will see, but i just think the odds are in their favor.

Answer 11

I think Osgoods going to win if Detroit captures the cup hands down. If Crosby gets hurt the Penguins don't make it as far as they did and vice versa with Malkin. Osgood on the other hand has been the one constant factor in the Wings winning day in and day out: 9 games of allowing a goal or less.

Answer 12

In my opinion, a player from the losing team should never, under ANY circumstances, get the Conn Smythe trophy. If you can't carry your team to victory when it REALLY counts, you shouldn't get it. Period. I don't care if you beat Gretzky's single-season playoff points record or command 15 shutouts. You lose. You don't get a trophy. Period. No argument. No doubt about it. Yes, it is the MVP of the playoffs, not just the Finals, but if you don't WIN the playoffs, the ENTIRE THING, you don't deserve the trophy. This isn't one of those Little League things where everyone wins. Trophies are for winners, not losers.

Answer 13

Conn Smythe is the MVP of the playoffs, not the Finals.



It has been won a handful of times by the losing team, usually a goaltender, Giguere being the last.



IMO, they should TRY to give it to someone on the winning team BUT in cases where the losing team has had a player who has been significantly better than anyone from the winning team, I think it is OK to give it to the losing team........Reggie Leach won it in 1976 as a member of the losing team and they were SWEPT. Hextall also won it on the losing team in a 7 game series. Leach set the record for goals in a playoff that year.

This year, no Wings player has been phenomenal AND I think a Pens player SHOULD win it........HOWEVER, I think that player should be Crosby....IMO he has had a better playoffs than anyone.....although an argument could be made for Malkin being the highest point getter in the postseason in over 10 years.



I will go as far as to say the Conn Smythe voting should go like this-



Crosby

Malkin

Zetterberg

Osgood

Franzen



To even MENTION Datsyuk in the thread is quite frankly a joke, he would get my vote as biggest disappointment.

Answer 14

Wow- lot's of debate and conversation...2 cents worth-



Dan Cleary. Without him, they are on vacation right now. 4 gw goals, including the Game 7 v. Anaheim!

Game 1 & 2 v. Chicago and ironically game 5 against Pittsburgh.

Far more impressive than Crosby, Stills or Nash- I mean Malkin.



Osgood- well, shucks- I think his play has spoken for itself throughout the playoffs.



Zetterberg and/ or Franzen- possible nods for either, but I'm going with Ozzie & Cleary to share the award.

Answer 15

I would vote for Dan Cleary. Malkin is a plus 2 with scoring 35 points, that shows him a HUGE defensive detriment.

Answer 16

Osgood should be named Conn Smythe winner. Regardless of outcome

Answer 17

This isnt really a question but I agree. I think the smythe winner has to come from the winning team. Who it is is beyond me however.

Answer 18

Oh Bob, do you even watch Datsyuk at all? You don't know a thing about him. You're a funny guy Bob(Sally), that's why I'm going to kill you last.

And if you don't get that, which you probably don't, get a life.

Answer 19

good point harley, but i'm going to say that Crosby and Osgood are the front-runners IMO.

Zetterberg and Cleary do have legit arguments

Answer 20

I think the game 5 shut out sealed it for Osgood.

Answer 21

Ozzie should be awarded The Conn Smythe trophy.

Answer 22

i read that....did ya see the opposing responses



it was unanimous that malikin didn't make the grade



on the other hand,alot of people said zetterberg